Owning a business is a challenge. Knowing how to keep innovating in your business is an even bigger one. Join restaurant owner, motivational speaker, and innovation expert Sara Frasca each week as she guides a fellow business owner in leveling up his product photography brand. If you've ever pondered hiring a business coach but want a sample first, come along for the adventure!
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Sara Frasca is the founder and owner of Trasca & Co Eatery in Ponte Vedra Beach, Florida, an experienced and engaging motivational speaker, and the CEO of global business coaching firm Point NorthEast.
Transcript:
You're listening to level up your business, the podcast where we talk to hardworking business owners and leaders and help them solve real issues in real time. I'm your host, Sarah Frasca restaurant owner, keynote speaker and business coach. I've spent my career not only in corporate America, but also as an entrepreneur, carrying on my family's legacy through my restaurant, now a business coach and consultant. I'm helping other businesses to use creative problem solving and innovative thinking to drive lasting change. Stay tuned to hear some inspiring guidance that will help you to level up your business. Isn't it beautiful? I know. It's like I always try to tell people don't tell the secret that chronometer Beach is so beautiful. All right. Well, we're live. Thank you, Jack, for joining me today on the level up your business podcast. Well, thanks for having me. I look forward to it. Thanks, really an honor. You know, we were just kind of chatting about the weather. I mean, we both live in the same community. And we got to know each other years and years ago. So let's start with our connection. How, how fun that we are connected in more than one way and have known each other for a long time. But tell people a little bit about your background, and just what you do and what you've done. Yeah, so we've been in the in the Jacksonville area for 20 to 23 years and our corporate headquarters were here or still are here, a company called a Cost of Sales and Marketing Center, an outsize out source provider of sales and marketing services. And so I was with them for 25 plus years, and retired a few years ago. And then how we got to know each other, of course, was through your primarily through your restaurant and coming in. And then once I got to know you, as I started, we started a program that was at Jacksonville University focus on consumer goods and services, you are kind enough become part of our board and our advisory board that really helped us to develop that whole program. So yeah, so So then through through ju and the CPG program, consumer goods and products program, and and then just through the community and and Trask has been kind enough to host some events for us. And yeah, so it's been, it's been a real pleasure. Yeah, it's been so rough. Oh, thank you, Jack. I mean, really, you know, our families know each other now. And I always enjoy to, you know, seeing your boys and their growing family, one of them, you know, coming through, and it's pretty fun. You know, it's an interesting, I would say, kind of small, large world of the CPG. World. So consumer, I think the acronym as I knew it was consumer packaged goods. And essentially, you know, when I shared with you that I came from General Mills, and you were at Acosta, and, you know, there's a lot of interconnectivity through the years of people that you've served people that I've served, whether it's, you know, the retailer, or whether it's getting to know, some of the manufacturers. And, again, it's kind of funny that we, you know, kind of grew up, if you will, in the same type of world. So, that was pretty fun. And it was an honor also to be a part of kind of the helping students at Ju, the College of Business to understand the possible avenues for development and for career path, you know, amongst companies like Kimberly Clark, or a small organic brand, or, you know, very large international, global CPG company. So, pretty cool. Yeah, you were you are a great fit on the advisory board for a couple of reasons. One of the things we wanted to do is broaden the demographics, if you will, of the board, and so have people that have a retailer background, a distributor background, manufacturer, background, food service background, as well as different roles within those a marketing marketing perspective or a sales process perspective and general management perspective. So have a fair amount of diversity of industry sectors as well as functional, functional areas. And you were, you know, so you were your perfect so not only do you have your new food service background, but also came from one of the largest, most respected CPG manufacturers in the world. So it was it was your perfect, perfect fit and a marketing background and as an operator as well. Yeah. So again, when the kids get to see, you know, some broad avenues As you said, for, for career pathing, and you know great careers in an industry that's going to be stable and growing forever. Anyway, so we really appreciate you being involved. Well, I think you feel the same way as I do. I mean, if we can give back in the community, especially to the young, like people who are interested, and, you know, it was my first Adjunct Professor role, I don't know if you know this, but after I worked with, you know, a whole semester with your team, with your class, and then I was able to hire one of your students as an intern. So that was a good experience. And then, from there, I actually started working with Penn, Penn State, I've worked with a couple other colleges since then all over the country, just helping them to kind of understand different career paths, how to be innovative within this kind of industry. And anyway, that was really fun for me. So thank you, again, for the opportunity. So on the topic of your path, you have continued to evolve, because you have just as much energy as I do. We're both blessed to be naturally caffeinated people. You know, Jay, you board and a caster, we're not the end of your career. So tell our listeners a little bit about that next evolution. Yeah, so we've got a small, I would characterize it as a startup company that does visual product imaging, or as we call them visual assets. So as most industries have pivoted very quickly, over the last few years, particularly since the pandemic has really revolutionized e Comm, and the need for really great product representation, and virtual interactivity, if you will, with your products that you purchase online, you know, really wasn't long ago, you know, really before the pandemic, that most of the retail experience and most industries were, you know, it was mostly brick and mortar, I mean, certainly look online and do your research and things like that. But it wasn't, it wasn't the majority of any of the industry verticals, right. And so they didn't have necessarily a sense of urgency on having great product representation on on a call, whether it was their own site, or whether it was a an E retailer. And then the pandemic changed everything. And so the need to be able to virtually interact with a product, almost feel it, see it, touch it and really experience it virtually, is really ratcheted up. So that's what our company does. And so we do that as an outside outsource provider. And we have very small companies and people that, you know, there's a woman in the community that makes you know, this custom made persons and so she'll bring her new purses in when she makes them every, you know, X number of months, and, but we have companies as large as Whole Foods. And so every every new product comes through Whole Foods, we image and we do their product dimensions and some other things. So that's what we do. That's amazing. I obviously have a little bit more in depth knowledge as to what these product images are all about. And so, you know, I've shared with you, I was in this shopper marketing role for many years, probably about nine years, actually. And we had to give the retailers so let's say I was working with Publix who I actually supported and Target and Walmart and Kroger and all sorts of grocers throughout the country. The one that I shared with you before is my Super Value days, because it was not only corporate, but there were wholesale, there was something like 137 banners or names that they do business. So anyway, I would have to work with this person and get them the images that they needed. And this one and imagine doing that 137 times and everybody needed a little bit of a different format. And exactly, it was complicated. And so, you know, sometimes there weren't images that were very good, they were outdated, or the packaging had changed and so it was no longer representative of the product. And that would be you know, a pretty big problem in the in the manufacturing world because you're really kind of held to very strict standards, etc. So I can commiserate with the I mean process of getting these images and so I think it's really amazing what you've done. I also think it's funny, you know, when I when I think back to the pandemic, I actually just have my water bottles sitting here it's empty, but you know, in the store, you can see what the right formation is right and you can see how it and obviously not the water bottle is is not as important but see how it might relate to you. Does it fit inside your purse? Does it do whatever it does, it does And so now that you have these images, and I've seen the quality of images that you guys do with the 3d renderings and the ability, you can almost picture what it's like to hold it in your hand or to have it in your world, physically. So it's pretty amazing. Well, it's really, it's interesting. And when you held up the bottle, it kind of reminded me, it's, it's interesting how much you know, many companies, and particularly those that are more sophisticated, how much they invest on their packaging, you know, it's a real science to get the right color of all the patterns, the Fonz, et cetera, et cetera, said all whatever you're communicating on your on your package is really critical. And you know, that's, if you will, for really the, the physical shelf. And yet a lot of companies still do. They're not nearly as invested in the virtual shelf. And now there's almost more volume coming off their virtual shelf than their physical shelf. And you know, how that product looks that you've spent so much time and investment in the packaging, how it really looks in a, in a virtual shelf is really important. And it's sometimes surprising how, how unprofessionally some companies approach the virtual shelf. Yeah, after they've spent all that money on getting a great package. And then it really doesn't, it looks like it just looks bad in a digital world. So tell me in, you know, name names, if you felt comfortable. But, you know, we talked about the amount of products out there, what are the products that you have currently, or would be a good fit? I mean, it's not just food. So talk a little bit about that. No, so we've, you know, we originally started in the food sector, and so a, that was our background B, there was a specific problem that we were addressing. And so we started there, and, and then and, and then we have evolved to some some different industry sectors. And, and also, we've evolved from being focused on large retailers, distributors, I mentioned Whole Foods, that we do all the business for Whole Foods. And that kind of started before the pandemic. And because Whole Foods and the whole natural organic food sector, had some had some issues with getting good imaging, and getting good data and information from their vendors. So they became kind of the solution for to get econ images. So in other words, they said, Hey, listen, I can't trust you as a vendor to get me the images that I can't, that I need. So consequently, I'm going to kind of force you to say, Hey, I'm going to take on your items, I'm gonna stalk them in my store, and I'm also going to put them online, just send me a case of your product, and then I'll get it imaged, and then I'll bill you back, and then we'll be done. But they're they've turned out and we kind of first started our mentality, you know, kind of pre pandemic, if you will, was focused on, you know, other Whole Foods analogues, you know, what other big distributors, retailers, et cetera. But the pandemic change changed the model and the, you know, very quickly for one, you know, everything's closed. So a lot of these imaging studios closed up. And so and then the other thing that happened is most manufacturers started to launch their own sites. And so they needed their own images as well. And you kind of you indicated that with all the, the banners from SuperValu. And everybody wants a little bit of a different, a different image rendering, you know, I want it from this angle, I want these three, I want it spin, you know, everybody wants maybe something different. But anyway, so what happened, kind of during the pandemic is, the big retailers and distributors, and even e commerce, e commerce sites, the Big E retailers, basically pushed all of the imaging downstream to their manufacturers and said, Hey, I'm not gonna do it anymore. You got your own web and manufacturers were for all intents purposes, and that's fine, because actually, I got my own site now. And this retailer wants it looking differently, and blah, blah, blah. And so consequently, everything that the industry kind of flipped, and now everything is downstream and done by the manufacturers. So that's maybe a long way of saying they're our, our, our customer base has really changed now and it's all of the manufacturers and our, our sweet spot really is because we're a high throughput, high volume, very efficient model almost like a photography factory, if you will. We, you know, our sweet spot is manufacturers that have lots of items, lots of skews and a fairly robust set of new items coming through their pipe every year. So they they need we can obviously do small companies and we do small companies that may introduce five new items a year. And that's fine or one new item a year. And hey, I need you to do this item, you're fine. And we do. But our sweet spot is companies like Shimano fishing as an example. And Shimano, fishing has literally 1000s and 1000s of items. And every year, they're updating they're, whether it's their apparel, and their fishing vests, and et cetera, or the rods and reels or all there. So they're a really good example of a company that used to kind of do it on their own. And then, when they discovered that there is an outsourced provider that can actually do it cheaper, better, faster, and is expert in it, they said, Please take it all. And so we do. So that's kind of our that really is our sweet spot. And then also for companies that have large, complex, maybe not complicated, but challenging items, you know, we do, we do a company that does inflatable paddle boards and a paddle boards. And so, you know, not many organizations have the ability to get that kind of size items. And we do a lot of HVAC equipment. So really large, you know, compressors, and that kind of stuff out. So again, we have that kind of broad capability. And so we do, those are the kind of companies that are more of our sweetspot larger organizations, as opposed to, you know, your Etsy producer that's going to, you know, have a handful of items on a regular basis. That makes sense. So, where are you headed? I'm just curious. You know, it and we should say the name of the business that you are involved in, which is PV studios, maybe yes, yes. Yes. Studios, visual solutions was what kind of standard? Oh, yes, yeah. Okay. PVS. Alright, so tell me kind of, you know, as you look at the future, and this is one of the things that, you know, at point ne we really work with our clients on is, you know, setting that vision point, and sometimes I describe it as kind of like a lighthouse on the horizon. It's a beacon of light. And if everything goes, well, you can get to it. And so, what does maybe it's a three year, maybe it's five year, what does that lighthouse look like for PVS? Well, it's fairly ambitious. I'm convinced that somebody will get there. And I Oh, candidly, we're one of the larger scale providers in our industry, we're now if not really the largest, it's that much of a kind of a startup business, but our, our, our vision, and our belief is that there this will be an ADP type of business at some point, now not as large as ADP. Yeah, we use payroll processing as our analog. So the notion that, you know, it wasn't that long ago that every organization did their own payroll, not that hard to do payroll mean, you've probably got staff or financial staff that writes checks, you certainly have to pay your customers and your vendors and everybody else, not customers, but vendors. And so writing checks, and paying your own people was not that hard. And if you didn't do it yourself, you may have used a local CPA or accounting firm in your market that was a highly fragmented kind of fail, I just use the local accountant down the road to do our payroll. That wasn't that long ago. And then ADP, and now that all their competitors have completely automated and change that space disrupted that space. And now really, nobody, nobody does their own payroll, I mean, even my brother who had a small and like a five person business, he didn't do his own payroll, he had ADP or one of their competitors was doing this anyway, that that is what we believe we believe that this is an this is a a an industry, where there are literally millions and millions and millions of new items that are produced every single year. It is new items, as you will know from your background at General Mills, but for most industries, new item is the lifeblood of their growth. If you're not innovating, if you're not creating new items, you're stagnant and you know, you're going to you're going to lose so anyway, new items are coming with just rapid succession in every industry vertical. And every time there's a new item produced in any space, you know, including including me when you have a menu change, you know, you need and want an image of that product. And there's no reason why you should be doing that internally. You know, you don't want to have to hire a photographer when you You're a restaurant or you make stand up paddleboards, I don't need or want, I don't want the hardware, I don't want the software I don't want to hire. There's no reason why you should ever do your own product images. But because our industry is so kind of new, and it really was no large scale providers, a lot of people are doing it themselves. Because what, geez, then they find out that we're there they go, oh, gosh, I wish I knew about you. I bought some equipment, I bought some hardware, I bought some software, I tried to hire somebody or make somebody that's in my marketing group, take the photos, and it's a disaster. And now the person that takes the picture in their marketing department never ever thinks it's a disaster, oh, we got this. It's good. But the reality is, it is a disaster. And it's not core to you process and so forth. So that's a long way of saying that, we believe that it will that eventually, everybody will outsource their visual images. Because the other thing that we believe is a tailwind for us, in our industry, or a small nascent industry is that consumers will demand better and better we already our product and our activity online. And so you know, if one long ago when you were you know your content when you had like a grainy image of something you wanted to buy online, and now you want to be able to zoom you want to be able to spin it, you want to you want to see a lot of things like our stand up paddleboard company as an example. We're doing like Griffeys like really quick that shows how do I put this paddleboard? Together? I get it, I take it. And okay, how do I inflate it? Where's that? Where does this go? Where does that piece go? And so you want, you're going to want more and more, or the consumers will demand better imaging or visuals to go with their to understand their products. So that becomes that much more expensive and complicated for a business to do. I mean, and again, why do I want to do that, oh, gosh, I need a videographer. I need a photographer, I need you know, I need to do all the photo post processing the cake, you know, cut out glare and all that nonsense, and I just why. So that's why we believe again, it's fairly ambitious, but we believe that this will be a multibillion dollar industry. And, and there's no reason why we shouldn't be one of the large players in that space as it as it evolves. So yeah, so that's our that's our kind of our why we believe it's, it's possible. Yeah. And also what we aspire kind of to be. That's great. I mean, you know, as you were talking, I was thinking about the olden days of when you would find out what the new products were, you know, via a catalog whether it was like a JC Penney's, or Kohl's or whatever. Or if you were looking, you know, for what you were going to feed your family this week, you would look in the Sunday paper and get the FSI circular, that had the coupons and the pictures and all those sorts of things, or the what's on sale or deal at your brochure, I mean, the amount of importance on the images, because people eat with their eyes. I mean, they they are, you know, kind of, they're seeing it or they're purchasing with their eyes. They want to know what the color is, and how does it fit? Or what does it look like or, and so anyways, I think it's incredibly important. You know, I think about also all of the restaurants out there. And as you know, from Tresca, that was one of my biggest, well, maybe not biggest, but it was a very important component of what I wanted to do, because I grew up at General Mills, where they had a photography studio, I mean, I literally would create photoshoots and I would be down there and they would be I used to make fun of the team but it was like they moved the blueberry because sort of blueberry muffin, it had to look a certain way and they would be you know, photographing it and looking at a computer screen and moving something and but it may they may beautiful photography that was mouthwatering that made people want to buy it which again, people buy with their with their eyes. So when I did the restaurant, I knew that I needed to have better than average photography and your team came out and did all the photography that we use on our website right now and in our menus and online ordering and I think it's a bit of a game changer, Jack because I think you know, if you think about your local I make, you know, I make no assumptions on what's out there in the world. But when I can think of like, you know, a Mexican restaurant menu or a sushi restaurant menu or In an Italian restaurant menu, like the photography does not look great. No, no, I think I mean, you're so right. Because and your photography looks great. And it's, it's great. You know, you need somebody that actually knows what they're doing, right. But the realm that matters most is the strategy. And that was you, you're like, hey, this is what I want. And I want it to look really good. And I want it. So it's almost like the ad agency is a really or the, there's two components to marketing a product imaging, if you will, or marketing a product. And what we do is the mundane, the mundane, boring, alright, just take a picture of the product, the important stuff is like, you know, how do you know the person that's out there casting the pole and the beautiful scene on the boat in the ocean, and that's what you owe, that's who I want to be looking at the picture of the rod underneath is like, it needs to look great, I need to be able to see it, visualize it, I need to be able to do all that. But the you know, the ad agency and the company, that's what they want to focus on, I want to create the image that these people want to be and the same thing is true with the food, you know, you decide, here's how I want it to look. And then all right, you guys come in here and and make sure it looks phenomenally good. Do that. But you know, what's your vision? And you did it so well. Because I mean, we We all shop for food to online, right? What do you want to? What do you want to take out tonight? As opposed to where do you want to go? At least that's us. And someone's like, Oh, that looks terrible. I know, I'm not gonna order that. It might be delicious. But it looks awful on their menu, or? Yeah, I was just thinking, and this is kind of to the growth idea here of, you know, the original value that you folks did for the natural and organic channel is that those consumers were very particular, they wanted to make sure that they knew exactly what ingredient or that it was gluten free, or that it was, you know, whatever, whatever the case is, and so your images, were able to help them know that. In my case, people you know, at the restaurant, people need to know that, you know, it's delectable. It's such a beautiful presentation showcasing each individual item that they know what they're going to bite into. I was thinking of, you know, the some of the other industries that you service, like the fishing rods or the fishing equipment. And just, you know, if the key differentiator of whatever product you are what whatever you have, showcasing that key differentiators. So if it's a rod and reel, it's the ease of which it spins or the softness. And so again, those are things that don't, that are not that easy to showcase in a photograph, but are extremely compelling, or the difference maker for the person who's making the purchase. Yes. So yeah, I mean, I not just any grainy image is going to show how soft the rod right? This is not my, my genre this would be for somebody else who's an actual Fisher person. But if it's a plumbing if it's a piece of plumbing, how does the oil again, bases but yeah, so really, really fantastic. Yes? Or the, or the way that it onto something again, I don't know. But I'm thinking like, How does my hand fit on there? Those are important components to people. That's a really what's that? Well, this is another point of Aedra. Business. I just recognize that it's natural life. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So there you go. So PVS they do a great job. Yes, they do. But it's it's a really interesting component. So as you dig into the different industries, kind of getting the strategy of what is it that makes people buy them? And that's what you're showcasing in your photographs? Yes. Yes. Oh, cool. So that's, that's, that's what we're doing. And we're, we're excited about our trajectory. It's just, it's just slower than we'd like it to be. I've only scratched the surface because if I had to guess I use it all US companies at this point. Any global Okay, yeah, at this point, is it this point? Yes, it is US based companies, but I know who you should go after next. And that's IKEA. Can you imagine how helpful it would be if you had a Giffy of putting together the cupboard or whatever? Yeah. Wow. Okay. We'll have to work on that because that would help me personally. So, any, I guess this Just kind of off the top of your head here, but what keeps you up at night? What what are the biggest challenges? What are the things that are on your mind that maybe I could help you brainstorm in the moment to see if we can't get PVS? Really? Really? Yeah. So the first actually, the first thing that does that actually does keep me up at night. Is this capital? Right? Any any small business needs capital? Yes. Okay. So yeah, so that's been a challenge. For us. We haven't necessarily wanted to go to venture companies at this point. So we're mostly raised capital through friends and family. And, you know, the good news about our business, as I've kind of mentioned before, is we're a scale provider. So we can, we can be large enough to do all of Whole Foods and some of these big companies that have lots of items and so forth. The bad news is we're a scale provider. So that means that our cost structure is is higher I mean, our footprint of our of our kind of our factory, if you will, the equipment, the licenses cetera, et cetera. I mean, so it costs are we've we've cut our cost structure as tightly as we possibly can, but our cost structure is still higher than our current revenue. So we've been you know, so the board and friends and family have been the the capital behind the business but so what keeps us up at night? That is the main thing of capital to get through because we are confident. Hey, check it out. I just got an email. Truscott company in eatery. Yeah. So what do you want from your market? Yeah, that's outstanding. How ironic. Yeah, I'm sure I'll get a text here soon. Right. But But anyway, so that's the good news. Bad news. Right. And so we are we believe that we're, you know, a few quarters away probably end of this calendar year where our revenue and our volume will surpass our or our burn rate. So but until then, you know, you asked what keeps you up at night? It's that is having enough capital? Because I mean, that's eventually what really kills most small businesses is, is they just don't have the capital to keep on going. Out of capital. And so that's, that's a that's the that's the number one thing that that keeps me up at night, if you will. Yep. So what is the capacity? I'm picturing, and I've not been to the facility. But what are you operating at in terms of capacity right now? Like, is part of it? Like, you need to get the word out there. So you've got the people, you've got the equipment, now you just need the volume to come through of customers. Okay, okay. Yeah, exactly. Okay, more and more customers to be on. I mean, yeah, that's, that's, yeah. And what we do with the way we operate now is we kind of operate as as the minimum kind of ongoing velocity. Yep. So with our with full time staff, and then we we, we staff up with contract labor. So as we get more volume in or as we have, this business is, and we don't have that much predictability of what's coming in, right. And Whole Foods, they don't necessarily have the predictability of who has how many new items and when they're coming in. So we'll, or volume or volume is peaks and valleys, and so we staff to the valley. And then as the peaks come in, we'll, we'll staff up. But meanwhile, you have things like you have your licenses for all of your all of our equipment, and things like that. And those are fixed costs. And so we can ramp a ton of volume on top of the equipment that we own. And on top of the licenses that we have. And so our marginal costs are relatively low. But we see that that additional volume, so scalability is very attractive, but one of the reasons why Yeah, so we're just get to that kind of minimal amount, and then we can we'll, as we scale, it'll be a profitable scaling. Yep. Okay. Do you have a person in charge of sales and marketing right now? We do. Okay, well, he's called the CEO. Okay. Very good. All right. And that's the that's part of the issue with a small company, right and don't have a ton of bandwidth. And actually what we have discovered Sarah, and this may be more nuanced than you want to know at this time. On. But what we've discovered is that it takes relationship to sell to a certain extent in our in our industry. So we have our customer acquisition strategies, we have actually several different funnels, if you will, for a customer attraction. But your one funnel is no simple search, as I kind of mentioned to you before, but search marketing can kind of being at the point of opportunity when the opportunity presents itself. You can talk to somebody all day, you can go to a trade show, you can go to the fishing Expo, and talk to you know, 100 different companies or any others, so you can go up and down the street. And they're like, thanks very much, you know, talk to the hand. And then when they have a problem, and they need something, then they go, who was that that came by? And you know, who was that, you know, that I met. But at the point when they don't have a need, they're just not going to buy? So anyway, search is an important component of position, because they are, I have a need, I'm searching for a solution. And you know, and then these folks pop up. Okay, great. One of the other ways I think I mentioned to you is that we have gone to a number of Industry, Trade shows where we identify the kind of the need, at high velocity items in the industry, a lot of new items. Imaging is you know, is kind of all over the board. And so we'll go to an industry conference, let's call it the fishing show in Orlando, this is massive show, and you'll go up and down the floor. And, you know, they're like, I'm busy. I'm what do you do? Hey, they're interesting, go away. But as soon as you sit, so having a sales person, wouldn't, you know, we've discovered is not necessarily highly effective or doesn't return. What we have discovered is we use sales agencies that are aligned to that space. Yep, small company that represents, you know, hundreds of manufacturers a little bit like what Acosta did, yeah. Right. So but they, but they exist in most industry verticals. And we work with one that's in the fishing and hunting and outdoor sports vertical. And they, when we walked the trade, same trade show with them, we can talk to anybody now. They know them all. They know the decision maker, they can get to the decision maker and say, Oh, by the way, right? You need to talk to these people, because your images are lousy. And your competitor looks like so and have you ever really looked at your images, and you are bypassing or missing out on significant econ volume? Because you're not maximizing? You know, hey, the reality is that this, I think is I think we all kind of recognize this, but the data says that the number one reason why people click off of a or leave a website, other than if there's a technical glitch with the website, is if the images and the visuals are not good. So we shot as you said earlier, you eat with your eyes, you shop with your eyes, first I look at the images, then I'll read all the descriptors, then I'll read all the information. So if I don't, if I can't see it, I'm out. And so anyway, it takes someone that has the relationship, and also knows who the decision maker is to say, by the way, your images suck, and you need to do something. And you know, we, when we bought that same trade show, like talk to the hand go away. Anyway. So that's what we've discovered. And so we are our sales strategy, that that particular part of our customer acquisition strategy is via sales agencies, okay, who the decision makers, and so we have a handful of them in different industry verticals. That's great. We need more, we need more, we want more. And so that's part of our growth. Sure. Yeah. So yeah, I like that. I like that. Yeah, it kind of feels like the cold introduction. Is that necessarily? It wouldn't yield the same as a relationship. Yeah. Or like you said, the search of I've got an issue and I'm looking for someone to scratch the itch. That's great. I think, you know, it's a it's a service. And so you're in the same camp as a lot of professional service organizations where it's like, I don't need an attorney until I need an attorney. I don't need you know. So that's very interesting. Yeah, so okay. Yeah, I mean, the capital piece, I mean, unless you want it to go out and find the venture capitalists, and you know, I think that's interesting. Of course, there's other routes, like crowdsourcing and things of that nature. I'm curious, do you do a flat fee for your customers? Like, can they sign up and have? Is it a certain amount? And we do everything for you all year? Or is it per item? Or? Yeah, we can do, we can do both. It's for the most part, it's on a per item basis. And most, so we've tried that. And again, this is part of the evolution of our pricing model also, is what we've discovered, is that it's just like, so unique. Everybody needs something a little different, right? And they may need something a little different based on their customers. Hey, Amazon wants this. And I'm part of, I don't know, again, it's, let's let's use fishing as an example. But it could be any number of things like, Alright, so what's the big, what's the big fishing retailer, bass, Bass Pro Shop wants it like this. And, you know, so and so wants it like this. And so I need, and then, so what their needs are, is very different. So and they also don't necessarily know how many new ones they're going to have, and when they're going to come out, and so forth. So we've, we're able to do pricing models, like you've described, but for the most part, they they'll pick a range, that's alright, here's kind of the, the package that I want for every item I want. For these kinds of items. I want spins and stills and so forth for these types of items. I want my apparel, I want them, I want them with a mannequin. And for my hats, I want this and then into will we create some No, so we can customize for them. And then from then on, it's you know, it's it's it's simple, but that's what we generally. And I think I described, we were doing all of Venus swimwear. And so they want all right, I want it to I want the lay flats, you know, where I can just and then I want on mannequin maybe on model blah, blah, blah, there's no there's a number of things. And I want for some types of apparel. I need this. And for some types of apparel, I need that. Right. Right. Apparel is an industry that I would think I mean, again, people are, well, particular, how does the fabric, you know, what's the fit on the shoulders or whatever I can imagine, you know, the photography is an incredibly important aspect. So yeah, we're now like, for example, we've got one company that's a they do like hunting apparel. And they have what what we refer to as hotspots. So you can zoom in to Well, I'd say you can see the zippers and you can really see how the vents work. But also like one where you can zoom in, and you actually see the fabric, what is made up. So even better than like, if you're touching and feeling you can see, oh, that's how the fabric is made? Or what's the density and the way that it's you know, kind of manufactured so that, you know, yeah, yeah. Wow, that's fantastic. Okay. Well, I mean, gosh, I think it's a really exciting time. And I'm hopeful. I mean, I'll obviously stay very close to kind of following the progress, but you'll have to keep me posted. And I actually wrote down a handful of people that I think could benefit from this kind of in the CPG world. different products that I have, you know, some close friends and family that represent these businesses. And I mean, my gears returning as you were talking, I wonder, well, I'm, I'm all ears. Appreciate that. Yeah. Well, Jack, I mean, honestly, it's, it's really fun to kind of you get your hands in so many different things. And I know how, you know, connected you are in the community to helping folks and I hope you know, I will always help you, no matter the topic, and, and you for us and me. But I'm gonna keep thinking and I'm excited to watch PBS grow and scale and become what I know it can be. So thank you for sharing your journey with me. Well, thank you. I'm always excited about your journey as well. I've been fun to follow Treska and your new growth strategy in the past as your previous ones, your current one, as well as point northeast and so I'm really excited about that. And thanks. Yeah, thanks for thanks for having me. I appreciate any ideas you have. I'm all ears. I really do. And our listeners may have some ideas as well, hey, that actually, I almost forgot, tell us how we can find you tell us how we can come in contact with your company. So if people are looking for photography, they'll know where to go. Yeah, so they can find us online at PVS studios.com. And that's they'll, they should be able to find us is, and it gives. And that's another as a small company, I know our website is as good as it could be. And we've really tried to improve it. And and so we have a lot of different types of images. And at least it gives you an idea of like, oh, cat like that. That's interesting. I need my product really could benefit by that kind of have a look, you mentioned before you were talking about rods and reels and how soft they are. But other things, you know, what how a parallel is done, or how something else is done? Or like, oh, yeah, that would be a cool way to show how I put my how I put something together once I once I receive it in the box. So yeah, so we got a lot of stuff on our website that PVS studios.com. And, yeah, but one of the things that we also do for all of our potential clients or customers is, we'll give them some free sample. So I send us send us a couple of products, and we'll do some imaging for you and then shoot it back to and then we can talk and yeah, and then we can discuss exactly what you need in our in the people that on our we do have sales people that you know, once you come in like alright, help them think about what ways they could better represent their products online. Have you thought about this? You know, we can do that? Have you thought about that? Or here's an example of a company and this is what they did? And, you know, or what do you have in mind? So yeah, so we customer service sales, if you will, that's great. I mean, that's a really, really nice to offer and a good, good way for them to get to know PVS studios. I just thought of something and this is not now but what if trafficker ends up shipping frozen pimientos in the future. Oh, I liked that. You guys, you could photograph you know, how it looks when it arrives and the steps and then the, the eating and when and when when you get those frozen caminos I'm sure Whole Foods will stock them. And you go to Whole Foods, like make it easy as us so yeah. Well, we'd love to do that. And then you do your merch. So you know all your T shirts and your hats and all that kind of stuff. So yeah, yeah. Great. Well, thank you, again, for being a part of the podcast. I really appreciate it. And I'll be sending some folks to you. I know a couple off the top of my head. And I'll obviously keep thinking too, but if you need anything, you'd let me know. Well, thank you, I guess you know I do. And vice versa, or anytime and I'm just glad to be part of it. And if I can help me any other way or help any of your any of your the people on your podcast, you know, let me know. Thank you. Thanks. All right. All right. Thanks, everybody for listening and being a part of it. I hope you also have a good afternoon and see you soon. See you soon. Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of level up your business with me, Sara Frasca. If you have a problem in your business that's keeping you up at night. Please join us in a future episode so we can help get you unstuck. Just clicking the link in the show notes and send us a message. Please remember, stay innovative friends